Hi,
Although I am new to flowcode I have more than 15 years experience programming metal cutting and assembly lines in the automotive world in the USA.
I have noticed that in flowcode I am forced to create an almost staircase look to logic.
I have used FloPro (DOS based, gone), VLC & Think N Do (windows, current products) flowchart programming environments.
They have an almost spreadsheet like format.
10 columns by X rows, I have never found a row limit. In these programs you can put blocks side by side in the same row and manually connect the destination lines from one block to another. The destination lines come out the bottom of an input or output block OR the yes/no points of a decision block.
It makes looking at "routines" within a flowchart easy to read.
I realize that these products I mentioned are many thousands of dollars each and Flowcode is an exceptional value when compared.
Any chance that this is something that might be done in the future?
Create the spreadsheet layout, allow users to place the blocks next to each other on the same row, and allow users to route destination lines manually.
Thanks
Ron
Connecting 2 Flowcode blocks i Wish List
-
Steve
- Matrix Staff
- Posts: 3427
- Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:59 pm
- Has thanked: 114 times
- Been thanked: 422 times
- Contact:
Hello Ron,
Thanks for the suggestion. It is something that has been suggested in the past, and we're always grateful to hear of ways to improve our products.
However, one of the disadvantages of that matrix approach is that you might spend more time making a flowchart look "pretty" than actually creating a program.
You also tend to have problems when deleting icons, or copying / moving them to other parts of the flowchart - autorouting algorithms are rarely up to scratch.
But you are right - when time and effort is spent, the resulting flowchart is much more readable using the matrix approach.
I think this is a very worthwhile discussion to have and I'd welcome more input from you - and anyone else for that matter...
Thanks for the suggestion. It is something that has been suggested in the past, and we're always grateful to hear of ways to improve our products.
However, one of the disadvantages of that matrix approach is that you might spend more time making a flowchart look "pretty" than actually creating a program.
You also tend to have problems when deleting icons, or copying / moving them to other parts of the flowchart - autorouting algorithms are rarely up to scratch.
But you are right - when time and effort is spent, the resulting flowchart is much more readable using the matrix approach.
I think this is a very worthwhile discussion to have and I'd welcome more input from you - and anyone else for that matter...
Wish list
Hi,
As I am new here and I do not want to come off as the "know it all" Yank from the USA.
I am having a great deal of fun using Flowcode.
In regards to speding to much time making a program look good instead of programming, hmmmm......
I have ssen "C", HTML, maybe even PASCAL, and BASIC code written where various lines are indented in a diagonal fashion as sections/lines of code are written. This almost has a left side of hour glass look to it. I am often told it makes the code easier to "read", and this is important for debuging the code.
Debugging code is important in flowcode as well.
I have an idea for your cut & paste issues you mention, FloPro had similar issues when it was young, Flowcode is years ahead of FloPro in this respect. You are also correct in that it is not easy to cut and paste a flowchart unless you have some experience doing it, but you are not good at writing flowcode without experience so the trick is to find a good balance.
If MM is interested I could email you with one proven approach that could be consisered.
It would also work in conjunction with allowing a decision block destimation to loop to another block as opposed to using "connection points". Connection points are a great tool, I wish that FloPro had them back when I was programming in it. There comes a point in time when you have a large flowchart and you need to manually route a destination line from one block to another BUT you must cross many other destination lines to do it, this makes reading code impossible. When this happend it would have been nice to have a graphic representation such as your connection points. On the other hand, if I want to loop waiting for an imput to go high, it is much easier to "see" that I am doing this with destination line from the decision routed to the "read pin" block directly above it. (Disclaimer - There may be a better way than i am doing it, so do not feel bad telling me, why didn't you do it this way).
I do not know how much work it would be but maybe have an option to select Autoroute mode like right now, OR manual route mode of destination lines.
To eleiminate compatability issues you could put the limitation that. Once you start your flowchart one way you cannot switch, that way you would not have to figure out how to convert a manually routed "matrix" to the Autoroute matrix.
Again, I think this product is really great, any suggestions I make will most likely be to make the program act more like a traditional flowchart program.
I hope I have not oversteps my bounds.
Thank you for your time.
Ron
As I am new here and I do not want to come off as the "know it all" Yank from the USA.
I am having a great deal of fun using Flowcode.
In regards to speding to much time making a program look good instead of programming, hmmmm......
I have ssen "C", HTML, maybe even PASCAL, and BASIC code written where various lines are indented in a diagonal fashion as sections/lines of code are written. This almost has a left side of hour glass look to it. I am often told it makes the code easier to "read", and this is important for debuging the code.
Debugging code is important in flowcode as well.
I have an idea for your cut & paste issues you mention, FloPro had similar issues when it was young, Flowcode is years ahead of FloPro in this respect. You are also correct in that it is not easy to cut and paste a flowchart unless you have some experience doing it, but you are not good at writing flowcode without experience so the trick is to find a good balance.
If MM is interested I could email you with one proven approach that could be consisered.
It would also work in conjunction with allowing a decision block destimation to loop to another block as opposed to using "connection points". Connection points are a great tool, I wish that FloPro had them back when I was programming in it. There comes a point in time when you have a large flowchart and you need to manually route a destination line from one block to another BUT you must cross many other destination lines to do it, this makes reading code impossible. When this happend it would have been nice to have a graphic representation such as your connection points. On the other hand, if I want to loop waiting for an imput to go high, it is much easier to "see" that I am doing this with destination line from the decision routed to the "read pin" block directly above it. (Disclaimer - There may be a better way than i am doing it, so do not feel bad telling me, why didn't you do it this way).
I do not know how much work it would be but maybe have an option to select Autoroute mode like right now, OR manual route mode of destination lines.
To eleiminate compatability issues you could put the limitation that. Once you start your flowchart one way you cannot switch, that way you would not have to figure out how to convert a manually routed "matrix" to the Autoroute matrix.
Again, I think this product is really great, any suggestions I make will most likely be to make the program act more like a traditional flowchart program.
I hope I have not oversteps my bounds.
Thank you for your time.
Ron
-
Steve
- Matrix Staff
- Posts: 3427
- Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:59 pm
- Has thanked: 114 times
- Been thanked: 422 times
- Contact:
Re: Wish list
As I said, Ron, I'm very keen to get feedback such as this. You are a long way from overstepping your bounds!!!
And yes, please email me with a suggested approach.
And yes, please email me with a suggested approach.
Hi,
I have actually started writing a document and have addressed this issue. Depending on how much programming would be involved I would suggest a menu option.
Routing Mode
Auto Route
Manual Route
Only one can be selected at a time.
The disclaimer being - Once you start creating a project (entire project is either AUTO or MANUAL) in one of the modes, you cannot change to the other.
I think it would be possible to allow the change from auto route to manual route, but not from manual route back to auto. Once manual routing has started you must complete it that way or re-write the entire project in auto-route mode.
I think for beginners with flowchart based programming, Auto route is the way to learn.
Once they have several programs under their belt and have become familiar with the editor let them decide for themselves which is better, it is my belief that they will see the advantages of manual routing for destination lines as their programs grow in size.
But
If they have a small program and need to get it done fast, they could select auto-route mode and get the job done.
Thanks
Ron
I have actually started writing a document and have addressed this issue. Depending on how much programming would be involved I would suggest a menu option.
Routing Mode
Auto Route
Manual Route
Only one can be selected at a time.
The disclaimer being - Once you start creating a project (entire project is either AUTO or MANUAL) in one of the modes, you cannot change to the other.
I think it would be possible to allow the change from auto route to manual route, but not from manual route back to auto. Once manual routing has started you must complete it that way or re-write the entire project in auto-route mode.
I think for beginners with flowchart based programming, Auto route is the way to learn.
Once they have several programs under their belt and have become familiar with the editor let them decide for themselves which is better, it is my belief that they will see the advantages of manual routing for destination lines as their programs grow in size.
But
If they have a small program and need to get it done fast, they could select auto-route mode and get the job done.
Thanks
Ron