E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
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E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
I am interested in the ICD functionality, and I have a very basic question.
If I use the ICD function with flowcode 4 and If I would like to test a flowchart on a 16f616 for example, Do I need to plug a 16f616 into the programmer socket, or is it a case of the built in microcontroller performs an emulation function of 16F616 and all other compatible microcontrollers?
I would guess the latter because it was mentioned that there is a separate ICD (without programmer) that is compatible with flowcode 4.
Is there a brief description on how they work please?
I am intrigued since never used one before, and got one on order.
If I use the ICD function with flowcode 4 and If I would like to test a flowchart on a 16f616 for example, Do I need to plug a 16f616 into the programmer socket, or is it a case of the built in microcontroller performs an emulation function of 16F616 and all other compatible microcontrollers?
I would guess the latter because it was mentioned that there is a separate ICD (without programmer) that is compatible with flowcode 4.
Is there a brief description on how they work please?
I am intrigued since never used one before, and got one on order.
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Hello
The ICD function works to communicate between Flowcode and your actual target device. Therefore if you are programming a 16F616 and you have a 16F616 plugged into the board then you can run the simulation in Flowcode 4 and at the same time see the hardware running.
You can also set breakpoints in Flowcode and the hardware will automatically stop when it reaches those breakpoints. Also you interrogate variables as they are running on the target.
The ICD functionality does consume two of your target microcontrollers I/O pins. On the V7 EB006 these pins are hardwired to the programming pins. I.E RB6 and RB7 or RA0 and RA1 depending on your target device.
The seperate ICD tool will give you everything mentioned above for MIAC, ECIO, Formula Flowcode, AVR, ARM and even your own hardware but you will not be able to reprogram directly. Please note that the ICD tool and Flowcode 4 for other targets are still in development at the moment.
Both the EB006 v7 and the ICD tool also have analogue and digital scope capabilities but the software for this is also still in development at the moment.
The ICD function works to communicate between Flowcode and your actual target device. Therefore if you are programming a 16F616 and you have a 16F616 plugged into the board then you can run the simulation in Flowcode 4 and at the same time see the hardware running.
You can also set breakpoints in Flowcode and the hardware will automatically stop when it reaches those breakpoints. Also you interrogate variables as they are running on the target.
The ICD functionality does consume two of your target microcontrollers I/O pins. On the V7 EB006 these pins are hardwired to the programming pins. I.E RB6 and RB7 or RA0 and RA1 depending on your target device.
The seperate ICD tool will give you everything mentioned above for MIAC, ECIO, Formula Flowcode, AVR, ARM and even your own hardware but you will not be able to reprogram directly. Please note that the ICD tool and Flowcode 4 for other targets are still in development at the moment.
Both the EB006 v7 and the ICD tool also have analogue and digital scope capabilities but the software for this is also still in development at the moment.
Regards Ben Rowland - MatrixTSL
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Sounds great!! So I have it clear in my mind. Although there is still development work going on with ICD side, The EB006 V7, is working with Flowcode V4 ICD functionality.
Also the separate IDC tool in development, does that still need you to plug in your own target device (although it does not program it as you have already stated) Or has it emulation facilities so it does not require a physical target device like programmer does?
One comment. If your not using LVP then a separate PSU is required. In future perhaps a step up inverter could be developed so this PSU is not required to generate supply higher voltage for VPP (like PICkit 2) but is only required if powering modules which take higher current than USB can supply.
Also the separate IDC tool in development, does that still need you to plug in your own target device (although it does not program it as you have already stated) Or has it emulation facilities so it does not require a physical target device like programmer does?
One comment. If your not using LVP then a separate PSU is required. In future perhaps a step up inverter could be developed so this PSU is not required to generate supply higher voltage for VPP (like PICkit 2) but is only required if powering modules which take higher current than USB can supply.
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Hello
The EB006 v7 is currently 100% fully functional with the Flowcode V4 ICD. I even used it to single step through that program you sent in with the delay routine acting up.
The stand alone ICD tool will provide you with a means of connecting the ICD USB device to any microcontroller pins. Therefore you still connect it to your target device but using almost any programming hardware. Therefore you will still need the physical target and a programmer board / prototype board /custom made board but this will not be limited to PICmicros.
We did think about fitting a whistler or pump circuit to the EB006 to allow the USB to drive the programming without LVP enabled but decided that it was a bit risky as you can connect almost anything you like to the EB006 and this may strain the USB supply. At least if you are manually enabling LVP then you should be at least semi aware of the risks of drawing power from the USB.
Also fitting the step up would have increased the board cost and we wanted to keep costs as low as possible to pass on savings to our customers.
The main reason for this decision was reliability. We have a lot of experience with the current power setup and we know it works well and is reliable. If we changed the power supply circuitry and it started causing power problems or failing after 6 months then we would be in a right old mess.
Hope this answers your questions
The EB006 v7 is currently 100% fully functional with the Flowcode V4 ICD. I even used it to single step through that program you sent in with the delay routine acting up.
The stand alone ICD tool will provide you with a means of connecting the ICD USB device to any microcontroller pins. Therefore you still connect it to your target device but using almost any programming hardware. Therefore you will still need the physical target and a programmer board / prototype board /custom made board but this will not be limited to PICmicros.
We did think about fitting a whistler or pump circuit to the EB006 to allow the USB to drive the programming without LVP enabled but decided that it was a bit risky as you can connect almost anything you like to the EB006 and this may strain the USB supply. At least if you are manually enabling LVP then you should be at least semi aware of the risks of drawing power from the USB.
Also fitting the step up would have increased the board cost and we wanted to keep costs as low as possible to pass on savings to our customers.
The main reason for this decision was reliability. We have a lot of experience with the current power setup and we know it works well and is reliable. If we changed the power supply circuitry and it started causing power problems or failing after 6 months then we would be in a right old mess.
Hope this answers your questions
Regards Ben Rowland - MatrixTSL
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Yes that does answer quesions fully, and thank you.
I can understand what you are saying about PSU, and you do have a fair point.
I can understand what you are saying about PSU, and you do have a fair point.
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
There is some more on this that I would like to explain because the situation is not exactly as Ben describes it here.Benj wrote:Both the EB006 v7 and the ICD tool also have analogue and digital scope capabilities but the software for this is also still in development at the moment.
1) The stand-alone ICD tool is still in the design phase and we do not have a date for its release. It might be released before the end of the year, but I will not promise this. If you want Flowcode ICD functionality, then you will need to buy the EB006 v7.
2) The scope functionality of the ICD tool and the next version of the EB006 is still under development and its specification is not fully known at this time.
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Having a problem programming chips.
Have tried on both USB (changing jumper J29 to USB)and using a unregulated 12V DC power supply
The programmer itself is detected.
J12-14 are in USB J29 is in psu with unregulated psu connected.
When Click on Autodetect, LED1 briefly flicked. then just get a message β€Can not ID the onboard chipβ€
It was working but suddenly stopped. Whist 16F88 was still inserted.
Tried a couple of 16F737, a 12F615 and 12F675. latter two not been used before.
I know its obvious but only got 1 microcontroller in the socket and pin 1 is nearest USB connection side.
J18 and 19 to OSC. Not that should mane a difference.
Any Ideas please.
Have tried on both USB (changing jumper J29 to USB)and using a unregulated 12V DC power supply
The programmer itself is detected.
J12-14 are in USB J29 is in psu with unregulated psu connected.
When Click on Autodetect, LED1 briefly flicked. then just get a message β€Can not ID the onboard chipβ€
It was working but suddenly stopped. Whist 16F88 was still inserted.
Tried a couple of 16F737, a 12F615 and 12F675. latter two not been used before.
I know its obvious but only got 1 microcontroller in the socket and pin 1 is nearest USB connection side.
J18 and 19 to OSC. Not that should mane a difference.
Any Ideas please.
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Forgot to mention.
Programmer stopped programming whist connected to PC and ppp.
Chip was not removed or replaced, Prior to not working.
It could be my PC. Although I did try and set board of for ICD. All I kept getting was a message stating code on target has changed. Upload new code… or words to that effect. That was when I noticed there was a problem.
Programmer stopped programming whist connected to PC and ppp.
Chip was not removed or replaced, Prior to not working.
It could be my PC. Although I did try and set board of for ICD. All I kept getting was a message stating code on target has changed. Upload new code… or words to that effect. That was when I noticed there was a problem.
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Hello Medelec
Im guessing the device is appearing ok in your device manager when you plug it in. J29 should be in the PSU position and J12,13,14 should be in the USB position.
If this is the case then here are a couple of things you can try.
1) Follow the FAQ available from here - http://www.matrixmultimedia.com/support ... .php?t=508
2) Switch the board to RC mode and try to autodetect the device / program again.
3) Switch to a higher voltage power supply 13.5V <-> 16V. the PICmicro require 12V to program them and the bridge rectifier will consume approx 0.7V though I have always been ok using my bench supply at 12V.
If these do not help to solve your problem then:
1) which version of PPP are you using?
2) Did anything happen to the board that may have caused a problem eg a short etc.
3) If you can confirm that it is not working in another PC then that would also help to narrow down the problem.
Im guessing the device is appearing ok in your device manager when you plug it in. J29 should be in the PSU position and J12,13,14 should be in the USB position.
If this is the case then here are a couple of things you can try.
1) Follow the FAQ available from here - http://www.matrixmultimedia.com/support ... .php?t=508
2) Switch the board to RC mode and try to autodetect the device / program again.
3) Switch to a higher voltage power supply 13.5V <-> 16V. the PICmicro require 12V to program them and the bridge rectifier will consume approx 0.7V though I have always been ok using my bench supply at 12V.
If these do not help to solve your problem then:
1) which version of PPP are you using?
2) Did anything happen to the board that may have caused a problem eg a short etc.
3) If you can confirm that it is not working in another PC then that would also help to narrow down the problem.
Regards Ben Rowland - MatrixTSL
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Un-ticked allow windows to power down device. Also Tried on a differnt PC. still the same. Plugged in a 16F737 loaded a large piece of code. Clicked autodetect PCmico Led 1 flashes until i click on OK of 'Could not ID the onboard chip.
Blew cobwebs of scope. Found the following: While sending code to chip. Vpp rises to 13V. Clock pulses on pin 27.
Nothing on data pin 28. So there is a problem between usb and data pin 28. Data pin not o/c or s/c since if change J12, 13 & 14. microcontroller programs fine via ICSP. Since have scope, anything else to check? I Can't see how running ICD in flowcode 4 would cause this problem.. LV programming is disable in ppp. Faulty HW?
Blew cobwebs of scope. Found the following: While sending code to chip. Vpp rises to 13V. Clock pulses on pin 27.
Nothing on data pin 28. So there is a problem between usb and data pin 28. Data pin not o/c or s/c since if change J12, 13 & 14. microcontroller programs fine via ICSP. Since have scope, anything else to check? I Can't see how running ICD in flowcode 4 would cause this problem.. LV programming is disable in ppp. Faulty HW?
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Hello Medelec
Ok if you've got your scope out then you can check that the data is pulsing on pins 12 and 14 of U4. Pin 12 is the data input from the USB micro and 14 is the output driving the target device RB7 (pin 28).
It does sound like there may be a hardware fault with your board. Do you want to send it back to me and I will have a look at it for you.
Ok if you've got your scope out then you can check that the data is pulsing on pins 12 and 14 of U4. Pin 12 is the data input from the USB micro and 14 is the output driving the target device RB7 (pin 28).
It does sound like there may be a hardware fault with your board. Do you want to send it back to me and I will have a look at it for you.
Regards Ben Rowland - MatrixTSL
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Thanks Ben. I have got the cct diagram, Will check what what you have suggested tonight, and post findings.
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Scoped, and could not detect the correct signals. I will send programmer to you Ben. I will place my name and address inside the box. Do you require any other details? Order number etc. or is name and address OK? What about a RMA number?
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Ben. How you like me to proceed, from reading the previous post?
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Hi Medelec
Sorry I missed a lot of posts this week for some reason, no your name and address will be fine.
Sorry I missed a lot of posts this week for some reason, no your name and address will be fine.
Regards Ben Rowland - MatrixTSL
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Tried to use ICD function. What ever I do, when run simulator, always get same message about 'The program in the chip is out of date' I am assuming USB/ICD jumper has to be in USB for programming then in ICD. When jumper is in usb side, program is sent to chip OK (although don't work with jumper fully down )
I am using external power supply to program chip.
When chip is programed a window briefly appears then closes. too fast to tell contents within window.
Is there a step by step guide/ check list to make sure I have set everything up correctly please?
Guide available from Matrix is very basic - don't help to get ICD function to work at all
I am using external power supply to program chip.
When chip is programed a window briefly appears then closes. too fast to tell contents within window.
Is there a step by step guide/ check list to make sure I have set everything up correctly please?
Guide available from Matrix is very basic - don't help to get ICD function to work at all
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Hello Medelec
There is an ICD guide available from here that should hopefully help you.
http://www.matrixmultimedia.com/softwar ... _Guide.pdf
Let me know if your still having problems getting this up and running.
There is an ICD guide available from here that should hopefully help you.
http://www.matrixmultimedia.com/softwar ... _Guide.pdf
Let me know if your still having problems getting this up and running.
Regards Ben Rowland - MatrixTSL
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Thanks for link. Doing nothing different after reading guide. Here are steps taken. Perhaps you would be able to see if doing any thing wrong.
Only have target chip on programmer, no other hardware connected. Not using RB7 or RB7 in flowcode.
1. psu and usb connected.
2 Jumper (ICD/USB) on USB since does not programming chip on with jumper on ICD.
3. Have target selected for chip....16F737 and ICD box ticked, pressed restore defaults.
4. Compiled to chip. Get a warning message about Hex file has config2 word, but selected chip does not. Hmmm must be that ppp bug , since 167737 does have two config words. After pressing continue, compiler window shoes programmed and verified OK.
At this point instructions does not say anything about putting Jumper (ICD/USB) on ICD. Logic suggested I should. But still made no difference! with jumper on USB or ICD When press step into, or run just got same message program on the chip is out out date.
Yet since chip was programed and verified, communication is OK.
Something obvious I am missing perhaps?
Only have target chip on programmer, no other hardware connected. Not using RB7 or RB7 in flowcode.
1. psu and usb connected.
2 Jumper (ICD/USB) on USB since does not programming chip on with jumper on ICD.
3. Have target selected for chip....16F737 and ICD box ticked, pressed restore defaults.
4. Compiled to chip. Get a warning message about Hex file has config2 word, but selected chip does not. Hmmm must be that ppp bug , since 167737 does have two config words. After pressing continue, compiler window shoes programmed and verified OK.
At this point instructions does not say anything about putting Jumper (ICD/USB) on ICD. Logic suggested I should. But still made no difference! with jumper on USB or ICD When press step into, or run just got same message program on the chip is out out date.
Yet since chip was programed and verified, communication is OK.
Something obvious I am missing perhaps?
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Hello Medelec
Just to confirm your settings if you switch off ICD mode does the program run as expected when you compile and download?
Just to confirm your settings if you switch off ICD mode does the program run as expected when you compile and download?
Regards Ben Rowland - MatrixTSL
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Only did a very simple program to toggle port A0 every two seconds, and that is working fine. Chip in programmer working fine. checked with scope and shows port a0 changing state every 2.000 seconds. Which means osc is running at desired speed
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Looking at scope there does not to be any activity on RB6 and RB7 when press Run in flowcode
Another thing. If I remove usb/icd jumper , and press run, I get same program on chip out of date message appearing. Odd.
Another thing. If I remove usb/icd jumper , and press run, I get same program on chip out of date message appearing. Odd.
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Hello Medelec
Yes the program out of date message appears when the ICD tool is either unable to communicate with the target device or the target device is returning the incorrect address.
What clock speed is your program running at? Could be that the ICD speed setting is somehow set too low. I've got a table somewhere of what these values should be.
Is the chip programming ok? If the program is going in alright then the USB microcontroller should be able to perform the ICD correctly assuming the speeds mentioned above are correct.
Yes the program out of date message appears when the ICD tool is either unable to communicate with the target device or the target device is returning the incorrect address.
What clock speed is your program running at? Could be that the ICD speed setting is somehow set too low. I've got a table somewhere of what these values should be.
Is the chip programming ok? If the program is going in alright then the USB microcontroller should be able to perform the ICD correctly assuming the speeds mentioned above are correct.
Regards Ben Rowland - MatrixTSL
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Are you saying the clock speed in flowcode is not necessary the correct setting if your running ICD?
I am running the clock speed at the same frequency as chip . i.e. 4MHz. If there should be certain setting that ICD must be run in order to work, then surly that information should be supplied. I did not see that information in the link you sent. Surly this is like: " we send you hardware, you can guess the rest!". More instruction details = less frustration and less required support!
post: medelec35 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:33 am I stated programmed and verified OK.
So with Chip internal osc running at 4MHz, what speed should clock speed in flowcode be set at please?
I am running the clock speed at the same frequency as chip . i.e. 4MHz. If there should be certain setting that ICD must be run in order to work, then surly that information should be supplied. I did not see that information in the link you sent. Surly this is like: " we send you hardware, you can guess the rest!". More instruction details = less frustration and less required support!
post: medelec35 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:33 am I stated programmed and verified OK.
So with Chip internal osc running at 4MHz, what speed should clock speed in flowcode be set at please?
Martin
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
Hello Medelec
OK in the project options window try setting the ICD speed to 39 or 40.
I can only offer my apologies and for now provide you with this table that shows the approximate clock speed to use for the ICD at various oscillator rates.
48MHz - 4
20MHz - 7
19.660MHz - 8
16MHz - 9
12MHz - 12
11.0592MHz - 14
7.3728MHz - 21
6MHz - 26
4MHz - 39
3.2768MHz - 49
1MHz - 163
600KHz - 234
500KHz - too slow
100KHz - too slow
32KHz - too slow
Let me know how you get on.
OK in the project options window try setting the ICD speed to 39 or 40.
I can only offer my apologies and for now provide you with this table that shows the approximate clock speed to use for the ICD at various oscillator rates.
48MHz - 4
20MHz - 7
19.660MHz - 8
16MHz - 9
12MHz - 12
11.0592MHz - 14
7.3728MHz - 21
6MHz - 26
4MHz - 39
3.2768MHz - 49
1MHz - 163
600KHz - 234
500KHz - too slow
100KHz - too slow
32KHz - too slow
Let me know how you get on.
Regards Ben Rowland - MatrixTSL
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Re: E-Blocks PICmicro USB multiprogrammer V7
By the way going over the value should have no effect other then the ICD operation would be slightly slower then normal. We did start off with a fixed rate of 200 that should work with most clock rates but it was decided that the adjustable rate would provide a better level of operation.
Regards Ben Rowland - MatrixTSL
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Flowcode Product Page - Flowcode Help Wiki - Flowcode Examples - Flowcode Blog - Flowcode Course - My YouTube Channel